HM295 Healing CPTSD with EMDR, IEMT, and Hypnosis with Jacquelyn Haley

What are the differences between EMDR and IEMT? And how does Hypnosis fit in for healing trauma and complex PTSD? When do you use which one?

Hypnotist Jacquelyn Haley joins us from South Wales in the UK and shares her experiences working in all three methods. She’s a pleasure to talk to as she shares her experience working with not just CPTSD but also her sister’s long journey with cancer and our own experiences of menopause.

Jacquelyn also shares her expert insights and details about her revolutionary six-week program designed to address PTSD and complex PTSD, and the nuanced differences between EMDR and hypnosis.

EMDR:  Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing.

IEMT:  Integral Eye Movement Therapy.

CPTSD:  Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

About Jacquelyn Haley

Fascinated by this Scientific Phenomena we know as Hypnosis,  Jacquelyn qualified in Clinical Hypnotherapy in 2008.  It was the first of many Diploma’s in Hypnosis, Counseling, Psychology, Advanced Hypnotherapy, Meditation and Stress Management. She also is certified in and works quite a bit with women going through menopause / the change of life. See more about her at https://jsh-hypnosis.com Her WhatsApp is +447368919833

About Dr. Liz

Support the podcast by joining my Patreon at https://patreon.com/HypnotizeMewithDrLiz

Winner of numerous awards including Top 100 Moms in Business, Dr. Liz provides psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and hypnosis to people wanting a fast, easy way to transform all around the world. She has a PhD in Clinical Psychology, is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor (LMHC) and has special certification in Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy. Specialty areas include Anxiety, Insomnia, and Deeper Emotional Healing.

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Listened to in over 140 countries, Hypnotize Me is the podcast about hypnosis, transformation, and healing. Certified hypnotherapist and Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Dr. Liz Bonet, discusses hypnosis and interviews professionals doing transformational work

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Transcript

Hey everyone. Dr Liz here, I hope you’re doing well. It was like raining and raining and raining here this week in South Florida, to the point that it made the New York Times. Like the actual city I live in, Hollywood, Florida made the New York Times because of the flooding that’s going on.

We’re pretty used to it actually, but even for us it was pretty bad. So I’ve been dealing with that. But it’s given me lots of time at home to edit the podcast, because you can’t go out. Your car may get stranded if you go out. So I’ve been doing work from home, seeing clients online, even my in-person ones that I normally see. We switched to Zoom, so that’s what I’ve been doing the last couple of days.

My interview with Jacquelyn is lovely, so I get all kinds of questions about EMDR versus hypnosis and she goes into those differences and also talks about her six-week program that she has for resolving PTSD and complex PTSD and it sounds really fascinating. She gets some really good results. So if you or someone you know is dealing with that, I would highly suggest listening to this interview or forwarding it to them so that they can get a better understanding of the different modalities that can really help resolve some of that trauma. It’s really hard to live with when you’re triggered by different things, or all the time or unexpectedly. So much compassion for anyone dealing with that. All right, let’s jump into it. Peace. Hi Jacquelyn, welcome to the Hypnotize Me podcast.

0:01:48 – Jacquelyn
Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me, thank you.

0:01:50 – Dr. Liz
Why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about who you are and your background?

0:01:55 – Jacquelyn
My name is Jacquelyn Haley and I’m classed as a clinical hypnotherapist, and I’m from a place called Swansea in South Wales, the UK. I’ve been a practicing hypnotherapist for I believe it’s 16 years now, so quite some time.

0:02:10 – Dr. Liz
Yes.

0:02:11 – Jacquelyn
In that time I have worked in renting clinic space. I have had my own offices. I run my own well-being centres. I’ve worked from home, I’ve worked online and at the minute I’m working um for a group of businesses. I have an office that I rent and we share myself and a counselor have a little business together and I’ve been there since kind of February time and it’s absolutely beautiful. I love it. There’s right in the city center, perfect car parking, views across the city, so I absolutely love amazing that. So, yes, yeah, fantastic.

0:02:46 – Dr. Liz
The view from the office is important, like my office, um, it’s on the fourth floor of a building, so it looks out over the tops of trees, which I love lovely.

0:02:58 – Jacquelyn
Mine looks over the sea, the bay, and it’s kind of close to the coast. So even though you’ve got that kind of city vibe, beyond that, it’s this beautiful view with little mountains in the background, so it’s just so lovely. It makes such a difference, doesn’t it, when you it does?

0:03:13 – Dr. Liz
yeah, it does. I was looking for a new office uh recently and I you know she’s like, oh, it has a window, and I go and look at it and looked out over like the parking, like his, his first floor, and it looked out over cars coming in and out and I’m like, no, thank God for a window, but no, not this one. So it is. It does affect you, I think. As a therapist, you’re there a lot. So yeah, it does, and it’s nice for the client too to come in and have a really nice view, I believe. And it’s nice for the client to come in and have a really nice view, I believe.

0:03:51 – Jacquelyn
Yeah, so how did you first get into being a clinical hypnotherapist, it was due to my sister.

My sister at the time she was 35 years of age and she got diagnosed with bowel cancer and it was such a shock to the family and I always thought that one day I would like to have been a doctor in psychology but not in from the med, not in medicine and I thought, well, I haven’t got the time to do it because I got. I was literally pregnant, seven months pregnant, and my I already had a three-month baby. You know, I had my children within a year of each other and, um, I thought, what can I do differently? And this hypnotherapy catalogue fell through my front door. The guy that was teaching was actually based in a cancer hospice in South Wales, so his background was in cancer care. I was like, how perfect can this be?

You know and let’s take it back a little bit to to my hypnosis journey when I, prior to this life, I used to work in travel and I was based overseas in the Canary Islands and I was a resort team leader and for a big holiday company. So my job was to deal with the most serious things in resort, and I’m talking about, sadly, accidents and multiple people involved, deaths, deaths overseas, everything. And that was my job. But I was gaining weight quickly because we were in five-star hotels and the life was partying and you know, it’s just a lovely lifestyle and I was putting all this weight on and one of my guests said try Paul McKenna, his weight loss program.

And I did, and within kind of days I can always remember his voice, you know you will take a regular, motivated exercise and the next thing I’m running along the beach, I’m. I lost a stone in a month but my head was more clearer and I was able to do my job a lot better. So it did so much for me. So, yeah, so, um, when I come back to the UK, then this is why obviously we literally got into it. But, um, then it was my sister, you know, so I wanted to kind of do something more for her and that’s why I did go into her eventually but what?

I realized in my journey working after I went into cancer care. I did a degree in complementary medicine and my placement was in a cancer hospice.

Then okay and what I realized during that time was that everybody that came to me with a cancer diagnosis had this immense history of trauma. It never came without that and I understand life is traumatic for many people. We all have a story to tell when we get to a certain age. But this was just over and over and I thought hang on, I need to look at more preventative health, look more down that route, and that’s why I just went into kind of mainstream hypnotherapy and when I say mainstream I mean dealing with general conditions.

You know, almost like clearing it before it got too big and then eventually, over the years, after niching in fertility and other stuff, I now work in anxiety and trauma because I realize, if it’s cleared that area and for your listeners I’m not sure what what you all think on mind, the psychosomatic, the mind, the effect of the mind and the body, I just for me, now it’s everything. When I deal with people is an underlying trauma or anxiety that they’ve not recognized or come to terms with or overcome.

0:07:09 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, I mean I think these days it’s pretty much undebatable that there’s a mind body connection. The somatic and the, the mental and emotional, are all very connected. Yes, so then you became interested in EMDR at some point.

0:07:29 – Jacquelyn
I did, and again, with EDMR, I never. When I first trained in it, it was when COVID broke out, and I don’t know what it was like in America, but here a lot of the hospitals were closed in, and so the nurses and doctors were in work and they weren’t allowed to go home. So that was such a frightening time for our medical staff. Yes, and one of our fellow hypnotherapists was is a doctor. He was a doctor in the military and he got a gang together quite quickly and he trained us edmr online.

(Oh, interesting.)

We were able to work with the, with the promise that after we finished we would go face to face to learning it. You know, okay, and I wasn’t really struck in it. If I’m honest, I wasn’t really struck in it. I had trained in another one called IEMT. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of that, but it’s when I went through my own personal trauma myself and my husband split up after 21 years and, um, it was a struggle in the early days.

So I did this diploma online and a lot of the work there was was looking at dr jamie mayrath and the way she works, and I don’t know if you’ve ever seen her work, but oh my goodness, watching her was like silk. I can only describe as like so, because she has such a beautiful way about her. She’s so calming, she’s so compassionate and I do believe she’s now France I can’t get the words out um Shapiro’s, um she’s kind of taken over a role in the EDMR world, but she was just wonderful to watch and I think it changed my way about it. But after that diploma we had to self-administer, and for two hours we were sent the music and, like I said, it was during lockdown.

We had this screen, we had to watch back and forth. And I come down here in my kitchen there and I was washing my dishes it’s about 11 o’clock in the night time and I just felt a smile in my heart that’s the only way I can describe it and all this kind of fear and anger I had towards my it’s all went. It just all went away and it was like wow, this is amazing, you know. So then I went to train with it in person to integrate it into hypnotherapy and I will give this man a lovely shout out his name is John Dewar. In the UK he’s a real old school hypnotherapist and it was just lovely and I got a few friends in the hypnotic world and we all kind of met up for a weekend and we trained and integrated into hypnotherapy, which is absolutely lovely as well.

0:09:55 – Dr. Liz
So okay, fascinating. So I know most people are probably not familiar with the IEMT and I only just heard about it recently myself. So can you tell us the difference, tell us what it stands for, and then the difference between IEMT and EMDR?

0:10:13 – Jacquelyn
integral eye movement therapy. Okay, now, in my opinion, the movements are the same. We do the eye back and forth. Okay, that way we do like a figure eight one in it, the difference to.

0:10:28 – Dr. Liz
IEMTs is before. Just for the listeners, jacqueline’s like making this movement with their hands. I know you can’t see that. So, emdr, you’re often following the therapist’s hands, or some of them have a light bar where you follow a light back and forth. So she’s making the IEMT.

0:10:47 – Jacquelyn
You’re saying a figure eight do you do that like an affinity symbol, so you make it sideways oh, in horizontally and vertical.

0:10:56 – Dr. Liz
Okay, in, and they look at.

0:10:58 – Jacquelyn
They look at um, targeting the memory or the emotion attached to the memory, different ways to use all the yeah, mainly to do with the emotions.

And what I liked about IEMT was that before clients would come, they would be asked to write a statement about their presenting problem okay and we would look at that statement to see the amount of ” they use, the use they use, the we like oh, you would have thought I would have been over that by now. You know the way they spoke. So we look at that and you go into it saying, well, how old was that I at that time?

And it really gets you to think. I mean, when I trained in this, my tutor, it was really weird and very quickly I went back to a time in my life when I was 10 years of age and it was all to do with a personal thing in my life, as it always is to do with my mum and it my life, as it always is to do with my mum and it was like oh, wow, the penny dropped, you know, and it was like wow, so I didn’t continue with that. With EDMR, people are attracted more to it because in the UK it’s advocated by our National Health Services.

0:11:58 – Dr. Liz
Okay.

0:12:00 – Jacquelyn
So if we say IEMT, people don’t know what that is.

0:12:03 – Dr. Liz
Uh-huh.

0:12:05 – Jacquelyn
They don’t really know what it is. You know, and it was developed by a guy called Andrew Austin.

0:12:09 – Dr. Liz
So wait a minute. They know. They know what EMDR is, but not IEMT or the reverse in the UK.

0:12:16 – Jacquelyn
Not so much in the UK In the therapy world, for example, I did put something in one of our groups this morning saying I’m doing this podcast, what are your thoughts on it? And they’ve all come back with alternatives that they prefer, but they’re not really well known.

0:12:32 – Dr. Liz
Oh, interesting.

Yeah, not very well known. I think EMDR in the US is very well known. I do get calls for it and sometimes people are attracted to hypnosis over EMDR. Sometimes I refer them for EMDR because I feel like that’s it really just intuitively seems to be a better fit for them than hypnosis. But I don’t even have any real I don’t know what I would call it like scientific criteria that I’m using. It’s more like a gut feeling that I have, like no, I think you should call so-and-so because she does EMDR. It seems like maybe that would be a better fit. My own therapist did EMDR with me at one point and I did find it helpful. It took away the intensity of this traumatic memory and actually I could tell the story very humorously if I, if I wanted to, you know. So I asked her like is it gonna take away my ability to do that as well? And she’s like no, no, no, like it’s just gonna take away the negative intensity of what happened that way we feel stuck in that memory where we can’t talk about it.

0:13:44 – Jacquelyn
We’re still feeling those feelings and then, when it’s processed, it’s like oh, it’s god, like my I use myself, you know oh, my heart is full of joy now joy didn’t realize that it hadn’t been and there’s been intense anger. There’s a lot behind the story. There’s been a lot of anger there as well and it was like I feel back to me again.

It was also yes that la, la, la, la, la moment, it’s like the world’s suddenly a beautiful place again, and it was really that that’s how I felt with it, and I was like, okay, maybe I need to explore this a lot more. Do you know which is yes?

0:14:17 – Dr. Liz
I mean, do you see a big difference between the IEMT and the EMDR? Is it or they’re? They seem to be very similar. What I know about it now, almost identical for me I’m exactly the same.

0:14:32 – Jacquelyn
Okay, in my opinion, and when we look back up towards these eye moments, they’re very much come from NLP. Anyway, when we really trace it back, you know and it was just the way it was worded the pre-work before was a lot differently, and how it runs during the therapy.

But when I talked with the therapist about it, you know, the more experience we get, it has to be tailored to the individual anyway yes so you kind of work in line with that and when you are working with someone we’re not saying like this is what I’m going to use, is tunnel vision, uh-huh, it will go off. It will go off because no, no, as said, no size fits all. So you do have to then kind of work around that client to get the best result for them yes, okay, so the IEMT is doing.

0:15:18 – Dr. Liz
A different type of history is what I’m hearing like when someone’s coming in, you’re looking at the phrases and the thing that they wrote that they want to work on and how, um, how old is that person who wrote that? Yeah, versus, I’ve never heard of that for EMDR.

0:15:36 – Jacquelyn
It’s really just like think of that memory and I don’t use it either very much like. I’ll give an example I was working with somebody this week online with it. I don’t like to do EDMR online, even though we’ve had the training in it. I prefer face-to-face with it. Um, but this person was online and again, a big background story which I won’t go into. But after that hour you could see how calm their faces become, how centered and seeing things from a completely different point of view, without me having to ask them to do. You know so I’m talking to them because I don’t want to give too much away, but it was almost like completely seeing it in a different perspective. Yes, which is just absolutely lovely. Yes, like completely seeing it in a different perspective. Yes, which is just absolutely lovely. Yes, you’ve got to see it, you know.

0:16:22 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, yeah, so how do you see the difference between those two techniques and hypnosis?

0:16:33 – Jacquelyn
Hypnosis Right, with hypnosis I tend to do more advanced work. I do done it not all the time with regression with my hypnotherapy. I seal it. So say, for example, that this is what the outcome of the session they want how do you see yourself in the future? Okay, so we make notes on the future. Then what are they going to be doing when they get through this? So the hypnotherapy that I then use is just sealing that and getting them to future pace through visualization okay.

0:17:05 – Dr. Liz
So for the audience of future pacing is when you do see yourself in the future. So often hypnotherapists, myself included, will say now see yourself two weeks from now, or two months from now, or, or you know you, you pick a time period generally that resonates with the person, that you feel like resonates with the person, and so that’s what we call future pacing. Like all right, let me see the changes that happen that are different. Like if you see yourself two weeks from now walking towards yourself, what has changed? That’s a common, like future pacing kind of technique. So you’re saying you do the, the IEMT or the EMDR, and then use the hypnotic technique of future pacing to seal that in seal, seal those changes on. Is that correct?

0:17:52 – Jacquelyn
it’s almost like meeting with our higher self, what? And I give them that space to be quiet, I get them to kind of look at this person and create an image, because they’ve told me already what they’ll be doing. So I’ll get them to really bring that to life. And I do be quiet and I let them spend time with their higher self and I let them talk to their higher self, ask the questions what they need to do and and what I like to do. I say right, okay, so it’s going to be in 28 days and we’re going to meet for coffee.

We’re going to kind of imagine that you’re walking in a cafe and you meet me for coffee. Are you excited? Has something changed? What are you going to be telling me when you meet me? You know I leave it to them and you know, like you were saying, I put this time frame. I don’t usually do that. I kind of leave it up to that. I say you might not constantly be aware, but your very powerful subconscious knows the time frame around this but, I, do also use that 28 days as well lovely.

I love that what are you going to be telling me? You know how are you feeling as you’re telling me, and yeah, I’m a friend of the person I got this from.

I did a coaching course with a guy called Paul Morton. He’s a UK coach, he’s hilarious, he’s from Newcastle and he’s so funny and I got that from doing his coaching, so we’ll credit him with that. And it was, oh my god, yes. How would we feel if I’m going to meet him in a month’s time and to say, yeah, Paul, I’ve ticked these, which I have, I’ve ticked these off my list and this is great, so yeah yes, yeah, I love it.

0:19:14 – Dr. Liz
I love, um picturing it that way, because often when I’m working with someone, we’re even before we do the hypnosis I’m having to make a list of how do you want to be, and sometimes those are qualities you already have and just want to access more, and sometimes those are qualities or actions or how you want to be in the future that you feel like, oh, I just want to get there, and so it’s perfect to use at the end as well. When we’re doing future pacing. It’s like all right if you can access those qualities and you already have, but I love leaving it up to the subconscious. Mind knows the time frame for that.

0:19:55 – Jacquelyn
Yeah, and I think as well. With the beauty of EDMR it is quite rapid. You can feel the changes almost instantly, whereas when I do hypnosis my love and passion first love will always be hypnosis. But when you have hypnotherapy we never know what’s changed until they’re in that moment. And when I work with my clients in my hypnotherapy PTSD program it’s always six. A six-week program and you know I it tickles me every time when they ring me up in the week going. You won’t believe what’s happened and I’m like, yeah, I probably will. But tell me, it’s almost like they’ve faced this challenge already and they know when they come to me on the next session we know where we’re going with it and I can use EMDR to kind of clear that. Look at it from a different perspective, then move on with the rest of the program. So it’s just perfect the way the universe comes to us, isn’t it?

and teaches us when we need it it does yeah, and I think because in EMDR they feel that go and it is almost instant for some people. So when the hypnotherapy comes, they’ve all we believe so much in, in their own kind of power, and then they believe in you as well, you know, and then so. So when they do the hypnotherapies, the work’s more or less done before. You kind of sow those seeds as well, you know, get those visualizations in place.

0:21:12 – Dr. Liz
So yeah, yeah, a lot of a lot of hypnotherapists will say that the work’s really done. They’re there for you to seal it in. And I don’t know, I don’t always think that that’s the case, like some people have not. Particularly when we’re doing regression, we’re going back to old childhood beliefs and we’re really trying to heal those and develop some ones that are more beneficial for that client. That doesn’t feel like that’s done beforehand. Actually, sometimes it’s like I want this. I don’t know how to get there. So other times, absolutely the decision has been made. All I’m doing is helping the subconscious mind get on board with that. Or the conscious mind really the subconscious mind has made the decision. I’m helping the subconscious mind get on board with that. Or the conscious mind really the subconscious mind’s made the decision. I’m helping the conscious mind get on board with that.

0:22:01 – Jacquelyn
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m finding the energy to go and go off and do it then, isn’t it? I just recently trained as a boxer size coach because I was in a fitness way back as well and I didn’t think I’d be able to do it. I’m 54 years of age now. Um, I love so love. I used to teach seven years ago. I still love it and I thought I’d love to do something, because I I now work with, I say, menopausal women, but I say the oasis of change, the transition in our life that we love it.

Yeah, I love it so it’s kind of it’s. I went through a crazy time. I want to begin to tell you what time. I went to last year and a lot of women were saying to me in COVID times, I just get this hunger. And I didn’t understand it because I wasn’t menopausal back then and I remember saying to one of my ex clients I would love to have a 24 hour gym with therapy rooms. When you’re in this intense rage, when it comes up you can just grab some gloves and punch yeah, hi, jack, I’m all right, come over, um. But yeah and um. So I decided to do boxercise coaching as one of my goals for this year and the coach I was working with I went, I’m gonna do it and this room when I’m in, that was actually um for the listeners I’m in in um, a spare room in my house where I’ve set up my online business, part of my online business here, and it was we’ve all got that junk room.

We’ve all got one at home, haven’t we? And it was that room to me, so we changed it. I have a friend who’s a painter and decorator. She did everything for me and it was to teach online. Because when I did my higher self future pacing because as therapists, we don’t always do it to ourselves, do we Do you know? Yeah, I could see this great big word written on the wall called stretch, s-t-e, s-t-r, and then, oh, successful therapy results. Where’s this coming from? And she was saying there’s your higher self, what’s it showing you? And this thing, I had this sassy pants kind of part of me coming through with going. You will be back teaching. Pants kind of part of me coming through with going you will be back teaching. You’ll be doing with boxing gloves on. I was like no, I’m too old, I’m not going to do that. I actually passed my boxer size instruction course, um, in the beginning of April so I love it.

Oh. So the next thing is to do more advanced training. But I also went back to kickboxing, which I used to do when I was 18, so now I go um, it’s meant to be three times a week, but it’s like that energy that somebody’s like I’m not coming and I’m tired, but they go, come on, you know, and it’s such a lovely class. So back into doing that kind of thing again and I’m like all these like teenage children around me. So it’s just been really lovely, you know. But it’s, um, yeah, so yeah, it’s that it’s.

It’s nice to do that side of things, when, when a woman is going through that phase of her life, to kind of like to have a place to express whatever she wants to express, but particularly that sense of rage or anger. Yeah, but that’s what came out of my future pacing and I was like doing the work of me and I was like I’m not going to do it. Oh my god, you know what am I thinking, you know? But yeah, here we are.

0:25:01 – Dr. Liz
So yeah, living proof yeah, it’s funny, I had taught prenatal yoga for 20 years or so yeah, yoga and prenatal yoga and then I stopped teaching in like 2018, and sometimes I think about going back and teaching again, but still, right now, it’s like there’s this part of me that’s like no, I don’t know, not yet, you know not yet, right, like, but I, it would be interesting to do something completely different than that boxercise was fun in terms of, you know, learning how to punch cracker to move the body, and our coach was, um, he was an ex-military man and he was had all these kind of upbeat, rocky songs on, teaching us the group work and a little bit of aerobics, and it was hilarious.

0:25:46 – Jacquelyn
We all had such a great, great time being taught as well, you know. So, yeah, and with the yoga as well, there’s, um, I was looking into looking for an instructor that does menopausal type of yoga.

0:25:55 – Dr. Liz
Oh yeah.

0:25:56 – Jacquelyn
But it is so much needed for women to bring us into that space, and during pregnancy we are. I don’t know what you were like with your children, but the hormones that we experience.

0:26:05 – Dr. Liz
Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, waves, let’s say Waves, I don’t know what to call them Surges all kinds of stuff of emotions, absolutely yes. How did you get into? Well, let me ask this a different way, actually we’re going to backtrack here. You said that you have a complex PTSD program, and when I was researching you a little bit, I did see that I was like oh, that’s really interesting. So how did you develop that program and can you tell our listeners a little bit about it? Is it in person? Is it online? Is it something they can contact you about, like it’s online and it’s face-to-face as well.

0:26:47 – Jacquelyn
Um, how did I go into this? It was probably every. A lot of things I do was because of because of my sister and it was dealing with. In 2016, my dad had a really big stroke and then later on he did go to pass. He did pass away and I was already showing symptoms of acute PTSD and that’s when I got kind of more interested in it and when my sister went through a really tough time. She’d cancer six times, so each time it was, it was surgery and treatment and therapy.

And then I met this lady in a group and she was doing it for the military. This lady had been a war correspondence for 30 years on the Frontline Journalist and come away to start working with military men. So we trained with her because of the military and for a while I did start working with these men and then realizing that there was no support for them once they leave and and I can think of one person in particular, and I mean tracing back the military psychs it really was a lonely place for me.

And I did have my supervision with this lady, sarah you and her name is and, um, I realized I don’t, didn’t think it was for me, because when you, when you’re taking on that type of client, you you’ve got a few of them it burns you out. And that’s when I started becoming burnt out. But what I realized, what I realized was that people were displaying these symptoms in all my clients. So I started to put this program into physical ailments, anxiety, and getting the most wonderful results with it. And a lot of it was content-free. All that is regression involved in it. That is a lot of it’s very content-free.

You leave the person to deal and I really loved that because you know you’re guiding your client, you’re not suggesting anything to them, you’re just telling them to go in and meet that part of you which was so lovely. And that’s what I continue doing. And because it gets so much success. And it is a six week program. So people are not coming in and having one session and wandering off, because I believe that can be dangerous to open a box of worms and then not continue it through. So they know they’re signing up for six weeks and they know we’re going to take that through, whether it’s one session every fortnight.

0:28:52 – Dr. Liz
Okay.

0:28:57 – Jacquelyn
You know, they can go along at their own pace as well, and um and that’s when I said the last since september 2022, I’ve been working very much in that, that way now. Sarah ewan has now actually set up a website called catchcom, which is crisis and trauma with clinical hypnotherapy. Okay, and it’s pure hypnosis, pure, pure hypnosis. And sarah’s not a fan of EMDR Okay, I believe the military have dropped EMDR now because people used to say to me that would come from having it done in the National Health Service year, that it over traumatized them.

0:29:26 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I’ve heard that as well.

0:29:27 – Jacquelyn
You have. Yeah, I’m yet to find any, what can I put it? Any scientific research that makes sense to me is why that happens. The research points to it being, you know, I like to call it like a traffic jam clearing, you know, like a traffic jam from the prefrontal cortex to the amygdala, to limbic system, and because that’s so clogged with all these emotions that we haven’t dealt with, the signals can’t get through properly. So once that is clear, then we are thinking more clearer.

I’ve only ever seen the positive side. I’ve never seen any negativity with it personally, but with this guy it is when you, when you work this way with her, she is very clear you do this program as it was set out. You know, you just follow the process really. So that’s where I kind of stayed, really, and, and I think when people have come in for therapy again, the lines between and hypnotherapy are still very blurred here. It’s not a talk-in-therapy hypnosis and what I found it was getting so many great results and it was almost like handing the power back to people. They were making up. The advice was coming from themselves, not someone telling them. So they’re learning to listen to themselves, they’re learning to trust themselves and they’re learning to listen to themselves.

They’re learning to trust themselves uh-huh and they’re learning to recognize the second ones, because not, I mean hypnotherapy is the last port of call is the last one yeah, port of call, they’ve probably been everywhere.

Yes, yes, often it is right, it’s the last thing they’re going to try and yeah, and because the nhs in in the uk will support EMDR and and I I think they’ve dropped acupuncture, I’m not sure people will go to what the NHS tells them to go for. Okay, okay, and EMDR here’s got a four-year waiting list for it. Whoa, or four-year waiting list so does the NHS.

0:31:14 – Dr. Liz
Do they cover clinical hypnotherapy? Oh, they do.

0:31:17 – Jacquelyn
Okay, all right they cover the therapy for them. Um, but again, it’s a four-year waiting list for the ddr but not for hypnotherapy hypnotherapy is not covered. Sorry to confuse you all, sorry. Okay, it’s not given on the nhs, it’s not even coming into question okay and that they wouldn’t work.

They don’t work with it and some doctors, some people who come to me, say their doctors tell them it’s dangerous not to do it. Oh jeez, even today, you know, yeah, I have had referrals, hypnotherapy from oncologists and neurologists in the local hospitals, doctor surgeries, particularly if the staff have come and they’ve quit smoking or done something quite superficial, they’ll, they’ll get in touch, they’ll send their patients, you know.

0:32:02 – Dr. Liz
But um, that is very far and few between okay, the cptsd program, so you’re meeting online, but you said it’s also in person. So at what point do they come in person?

0:32:14 – Jacquelyn
At what point, when they probably exhausted every single option, they’re no longer able to work? No, no, like in your program you’re saying At what point do they come into the program? It’s from session one, you mean yes.

0:32:27 – Dr. Liz
Oh yes, Is that it Like? Walk me through it. You’re seeing them in person for six sessions. Yes, yes, there’s also an online component to it.

0:32:37 – Jacquelyn
Yes, they can either choose to work online, like I’m talking to you now, or they can come face to face.

0:32:42 – Dr. Liz
Oh, okay, okay, so someone from around the world could choose to work with you online.

0:32:54 – Jacquelyn
That’s what I’m trying to get to. Oh, I’m sorry. Yes, yes, you can work with me anyway. Okay, got it, got it all right. We do exactly the same thing online. That’s what we do in person. I prefer online. I don’t know about you, because the person sitting in front of you they tend to be more relaxed because they’re not coming in, they’re not nervous. A lot of people come to me are quite nervous when they start, that’s true, which is like being in that position myself, so that they’re normally in their pajamas or in their tracksuits.

They don’t have to go anywhere you know they’re in their home and and it’s really comfortable, and they know we’re after the therapy because I do a lot of my online work in the evening. They can just toddle up to bed and relax and just that’s true.

0:33:28 – Dr. Liz
That’s a lovely way to see it. I mean, I do love in person, I really do. I work online all over the world, but there’s something about in person for me that really resonates as well.

0:33:38 – Jacquelyn
Yeah, yeah yeah, I think, after COVID, people just want to get out, don’t they? They just don’t want to be stuck in online. They’ve been working online for so many years and they just or they may still be working online from home and they just want to come out that’s true too, yeah or if the issue is something to do with their home life, they want to come out.

0:33:55 – Dr. Liz
Yes, yes, like sometimes even they have a private office and they’re there. There is a different feeling of privacy. Even knowing someone’s in the house who I don’t know could hear you. It’s a different state and like you’re in a private office, nobody’s around, just you two.

0:34:17 – Jacquelyn
So yeah, that’s an issue sometimes yeah, and it’s kind of more official when they go in somewhere as well, isn’t it, you know?

0:34:24 – Dr. Liz
yeah, that’s true too. Yeah, there’s a different process to it, but I love your viewpoint on Like they are cozy and they’re in the pajamas If you’re in the evening. I work mostly during the day, but still there’s a comfort of like, oh, I can just go make myself a cup of tea and I’m done, and return to my routine or do something calming, like absolutely yeah. Or go to sleep. If it’s in the evening, yeah.

0:34:48 – Jacquelyn
Some people come to see me face to face and once they’ve met me, they might say oh, can we carry on doing this online?

yeah, I have that too and if we’ve done the consultation on video calls, sometimes they’ll be like, oh no, I’m just doing a video. It’s fine because they’ve done consultation, they’ve met me, because it’s really important, isn’t it, that people, when they’re going to be sharing their utmost vulnerabilities with you, that they’ve kind of gelled with you and vibe with you as well. And that’s why I say to people come on, come on video first if you’re comfortable, and we’ll do it that way, and always by doing that, they can see what type of person you are as well. So, yeah, it’s very true.

0:35:21 – Dr. Liz
Yes, all right. So then you work with them for the six weeks and it sounds like you’re getting really good results. That’s what I’m hearing. Okay, and then do they have some follow-ups? Do you have a certain percentage that needs a little extra Like? What has that been like for you?

0:35:39 – Jacquelyn
Actually a good question. No, I can honestly say no, and my follow-up process is one month, then I go three months, then six months and then I tend to fade away. But oddly enough, the a few months ago I was going to I live in Wales, in Swansea, and I was traveling to London to meet a friend and I got this message of um she’s one of my first EMDR clients, actually and she messaged me and I’m trained in menopause as well, menopause coaching and this is another thing I wanted to bring up is is the research of trauma during menopause due and this is another thing I wanted to bring up is is the research of trauma during menopause due to the declining hormones? You may see a lot of yourself and I’m so grateful for this teachings, because before it you just think the woman was anxious.

you certainly were but, you could spot things a lot more than referring back to their doctors to get further blood tests. You know, anyway, I was sitting on this train and now I got this message going um and she’s put this very public on my google review but thank you so much. You saved my life and I’m like no, your determination, you know, and she went um. By the way, I’m four stone lighter. She’s got this meditation studio now in her house, all her colors and she’s kind of back at work and life is good for her, you know, and it just makes me smile when I all the colors and she’s kind of back at work and life is good for her, you know, and it just makes me smile when I get those messages and it’s just again yeah, yeah, like the four stone wasn’t even the goal really, but it’s.

0:37:00 – Dr. Liz
It’s a nice side effect that I’m hearing like the goal was really to feel to that complex PTSD is resolved you’ve got me thinking about that now.

0:37:10 – Jacquelyn
no, no, no one’s ever come back. Can I put a feather there? No, you’re right. So that’s why I believe in being thorough, because if you’re just doing one session or two, going through the complete process, you know you’ve got to do it all. That’s right. And I mean and I’m speaking from experience here I did it.

0:37:30 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, hands down, I agree with you. I have a core healing program which we’re looking at deeper beliefs and from childhood and rewriting those so that they’re more productive, really healing negative beliefs. And I did it for a couple of years and then I began to say people will want to start it and they’ll think like, oh, I’ll just do one or two sessions and that’ll be enough, because money or this or that or whatever. And I begin to say to people do not start this unless you can do actually it’s five to six sessions is what it is. So until you can do five to six sessions, save your money, take your time. You know I’m not going away, I’m not going anywhere. Like until you can do five to six sessions, save your money, take your time. You know I’m not going away, I’m not going anywhere. Like until you can really commit to five to six sessions, like don’t start it because there’s a risk there if you start it and like cut it off too soon, like you’re saying. Like for some people, EMDR, they felt re-traumatized sometimes by that.

0:38:29 – Jacquelyn
Yeah, so I don’t believe I’m re-traumatized sometimes by that.

0:38:30 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, I so. I don’t believe I’m re-traumatizing people, but it just feels like unfinished for them yeah, and you know this is a big, big topic in the hypnosis world.

0:38:40 – Jacquelyn
It certainly was in one of our groups on Friday and I’m blessed to have the most amazing teachers I’ve trained with and one in particular is a lady called Wendy Weber and um. I know Wendy Weber oh well, she’s amazing she.

0:38:52 – Dr. Liz
I took her. I took several of her courses. She’s online courses. I love her.

0:38:57 – Jacquelyn
Love her yeah when you come up with something during her training. I don’t know if you caught this and it’s like when we have a subconscious issue, it was first a conscious issue, yes, and all that is carried around inside us. Hence we have the behavior problems, the actions that we take. It is like a little volcano waiting to erupt if it’s not dealt with. So when we look at regress to cause um, there’s another guy called daniel garnery. We look at revivification when we’re not really reliving it. It’s there within us anyway.

So when these people say, oh, they’re being re-traumatized, they’re not, because it’s in them anyway yes we’re bringing up for a release, whether that’s content free, whether it’s whatever, you know it’s coming up so it’s no longer there. Then we have that clear pathway between the parts of the brain.

We are thinking clearer we’re not in that freeze mode any longer yes we’re not in that circle of hyper vigilance, we are breaking free from that. And last year I developed something called really loud tinnitus tinnitus for the UK listeners, tinnitus for the American. And it drove me to the point. It was insanity, it was awful, and it was so loud Sometimes I couldn’t hear anything but it. So I went into this massive trauma response to it. And one of the ladies from the CPTSD group she’s an ex-psychiatric nurse and she went Jackie, I’ll work with you my name was Heather McRobinson and we spent um.

We had eight weeks through it. After two weeks I was ready to go back to work oh yeah just hypnosis only yes, right, yeah, I work, I work with tinnitus.

0:40:26 – Dr. Liz
But I stopped working with it because every time I have a tinnitus client and usually they’re local referrals for me, not not many online mine will come back and it’ll just like when I’m done with the client, it’ll like fade away, completely away.

0:40:41 – Jacquelyn
So I’m like, okay, this is a clear sign that I should stop doing this work, like really that’s a good point, because people on um I don’t know if you’ve went to the route of following um well, he’s from America, dr Ben something Thompson, I don’t. Anyway, I was obsessed with my first. I need to get rid of this. I spent thousands of pounds on therapy trying to get rid of it and my sister, thankfully, has come through a cancer journey. She’s now doing a reiki practitioner now. Okay so, and hurting and never bothers her, because she had bigger things to worry about. Yes, but, and she treats. When she treats people, when the energy frequencies come in, she just comes screaming back until they’re gone. It’s really odd, isn’t?

0:41:19 – Dr. Liz
it. It’s really funny. I always think it’s so funny how the mind and the brain works. So even when mine comes back and when it did come back when I was working with someone I would, you know I just told myself like let’s listen to something else, right? Like there’s lots of sounds around here for me to tune into, and so I would gently talk myself through it. But yeah, it’s like no thanks when a referral comes my way now thanks, I’m good and that’s what it’s.

0:41:48 – Jacquelyn
On Ben’s channel say hi, just dropping by, I won’t be back, but just to say you will get through this. And I don’t come on email because I’ve dealt with mine now I don’t want to talk about it any longer. And people are like where are these people who will recover? Do you know? And negativity, you’ll never recover, you’ll never get over it.

And and because they don’t come back in once they’ve dealt with it, oh yeah because it’s like you, you don’t want to be reminded, you know, and and even though my sister being that this, my sister has this amazing journey of cancer recovery, she, she’s like I don’t want to work with it anymore because I just want to get on now. Yes, that was then what I’ve taken from. I’m learning, I’m doing it, the preventative stuff, you know. So yeah, so yeah, I’m interested yeah, there is.

0:42:29 – Dr. Liz
There is definitely a debate in the hypnosis field, like I think sometimes that is the case. But I have gotten the cases where it’s like they dropped out really early, so let’s say they did one or two sessions and then they contact me later or you know, something happened and it’s like, yeah, like I tried to tell you like you need to complete this work, it didn’t. Yeah, like I tried to tell you like you need to complete this work, it didn’t feel complete to me. I mean, there’s plenty of things I do in one session or two sessions. I sleep. Sleep is three sessions often, that’s it, that’s all they need. Or stop smoking. I can often do one session because my success rate is so high on one session, they don’t need more.

But there’s, I think, there is a feeling sometimes of okay, this is done, this is complete for this person, even though it’s not five or six sessions or whatever it is. And then other times it’s this feeling of this, this isn’t. I think my caution to people is like, make sure you can have the time, the energy, the space and the money to afford the five to six sessions. Like, don’t cut out early because of these other factors. If you don’t need it, totally fine. Yeah, you’re done. You feel like it’s clear?

0:43:43 – Jacquelyn
yeah, exactly, you know, um, I’m just something interesting I noted over the last few years and I brought this up in in my group, the PTSD group is that men, no, disrespect women. I love women, I’m a woman myself, but men seem to commit and whiz to it, whereas women will be like, oh, I can’t quite make today. And you know, I found that I’m not all women, but I found that men are the more committed.

0:44:08 – Dr. Liz
Either way.

0:44:09 – Jacquelyn
My experience when the program was put together there was when Sarah was doing all the cases. They were all men she was working with, so I don’t know. That’s an interesting point. The men go see the course more than women, I have found. Which makes me think. Women, we do feel guilty, don’t we, with spending on ourselves or putting ourselves first. We do’s like oh no, the children need you know, the children need this and I need that and I can’t take two hours out of my day.

I’ve got things to do, you know, and yeah for sure.

0:44:42 – Dr. Liz
I remember reading a study this was years ago that women will take their spending money, their extra money, and spend it on their children, and men will spend it on themselves, and that always struck me of like oh, you see that play out, though, in terms of something that a woman needs, like no, you really need to spend this on yourself often to benefit your children that are there or your loved ones in the environment. Like the more you can do that work, it’s going to benefit them, and when we frame it that way, when we think of it that way, it makes it a little bit easier for us to do sometimes.

0:45:19 – Jacquelyn
I know you could say that now. My children are now um one’s nearly 17 and one’s nearly 18, and I have this friend in Liverpool.

She’s really glamorous and she says to me go and pay and do your hair, go and get your nails done. I’m like I know I could never spend that much money on myself. It’s crazy. Now I do it, doesn’t know, because I don’t feel so bad. Now my daughter’s going mom, I love your nails. They look so incredible. I’m going to fuck you, whereas in the past you’d be like I couldn’t possibly spend that on me, you know. So women, yeah, we do tend to like not give to ourselves. When we got children, we put them first, don’t we?

0:45:51 – Dr. Liz
we do. We do, yes, great. Well, we’re coming to the end of our time here. It has been absolutely delightful to talk with you and get your perspective. Please tell people how to find you if they want to work with you okay, I have a website and it’s called www.jsh-hypnosiscom.

0:46:15 – Jacquelyn
All my contacts to my WhatsApp, my email, are all there. I prefer WhatsApp because the majority of us are on WhatsApp at the minute, because I see those messages straight away. An email could take four days to get to me, you know, or connect to my Facebook website as well, so a lot of people come to my facebook as well, but more than ever, whatsapp, because I on my whatsapp I have a business catalog so what is your whatsapp handle?

it’s plus four, four, seven, three, six, eight, nine, one, nine, eight, three, three. I’ll repeat that. So it’s plus four, four, seven, three, six, eight, nine, one, nine, eight, three, three, and on there I have a business catalog with all the programs I work, work with. Over the years I have niched a lot of fertility. I think hypnotherapy for fertility is amazing. Um, and all the other stuff. I do all the regular stuff we do as hypnotherapists. But everything’s on there, and it connects then to my website oh, fantastic.

0:47:18 – Dr. Liz
Can you spell your website name for us as well?

0:47:21 – Jacquelyn
yeah. So I’ve got a bit of a list of them and I so it’s jsh. My name is jacquelyn suzanne haley, so jsh, jacquelyn Suzanne Haley, so J S H. Hyphen hypnosis. That’s H Y P N O S I S.

0:47:34 – Dr. Liz
All right, and all of those will be in the show notes as well.

0:47:43 – Jacquelyn
So if you.

0:47:43 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, it’s not everyone’s like auditory and so you know, I always like to have it written out. For people it’s easily, they can click on it or they have that number. They’re not scrambling in the car to write down that number, it is in the show notes. So, whatever app you’re on, um, if you even sometimes all the apps don’t show the show notes, I was on this one the other day and I was like where are the show notes? But, um, it’s always on my website.

0:48:05 – Jacquelyn
So I saw yours. When I went on your website, I saw your number and everything came up. Yes, it was. It was lovely.

0:48:09 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, like every show, note for every podcast episode I’ve ever done is on my website so you could always search it up. Jacqueline Haynes.

0:48:18 – Jacquelyn
That’s kind of you, thank you so much for your work. It’s wonderful.

0:48:22 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, yours as well. So again, thank you for being here and have a wonderful day.

0:48:27 – Jacquelyn
Thank you, Thank you.

Transcribed by https://podium.page