Joan Sotkin, a renowned financial and prosperity coach, joins us to share her unique insights into the deep emotional ties we have with money, especially when chaos seems to rule the day. As we navigate through uncertain political landscapes marked by figures like Donald Trump and Elon Musk, Joan helps us uncover how our financial feelings often echo personal emotions rather than our actual bank balances. We explore how fear can cloud our judgment during turbulent times, highlighting the need to reshape our habitual financial emotions to empower better decision-making.
Our journey continues with an enlightening discussion on how hope serves as a powerful antidote to life’s chaos.
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About Joan Sotkin
Joan is the author of The Search for Connection: A Spiritual Journey to Physical, Emotional, and Financial Health as well as several other books. She was the first person to market crystals and minerals for healing and meditation nationwide and had a line of stones, Joan’s Stones, in 600 New Age bookstores. She has been offering her services as a prosperity coach for 20+ years to help people grow their businesses and their wealth using a unique approach of looking at the relationship between money and emotions.
Contact Joan at https://www.prosperityplace.com
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About Dr. Liz
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Winner of numerous awards including Top 100 Moms in Business, Dr. Liz provides psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and hypnosis to people wanting a fast, easy way to transform all around the world. She has a PhD in Clinical Psychology, is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor (LMHC) and has special certification in Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy. Specialty areas include Anxiety, Insomnia, and Deeper Emotional Healing.
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Listened to in over 140 countries, Hypnotize Me is the podcast about hypnosis, transformation, and healing. Certified hypnotherapist and Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Dr. Liz Bonet, discusses hypnosis and interviews professionals doing transformational work.
Transcript
0:00:02 – Dr. Liz
Hi everyone, dr Liz here. Today’s guest is Joan Sotkin. She’s been on the podcast a couple of times and she is a financial coach prosperity coach, I would say and works with the emotional aspects of money. She really believes that it doesn’t matter how much money you have. We all have feelings about it and to work with those habitual feelings to change them into something that feels better for us is the way to go in terms of like feelings about money. I consider her quite wise and we talk about lots of different things on this episode.
I don’t typically do any kind of politics on my podcast and this episode does tend to be more towards the political due to the chaos going on in the US right now. It was recorded in March of 2025, when Donald Trump is the president and Elon Musk is his right-hand man. Joan does make, let’s say, globalization when she’s talking about Elon Musk, refers to him as Asperger’s and says he has very low empathy. If you’re not familiar with the term Asperger’s, it was in the DSM for decades and its own diagnosis, but then in right around 2013, it got wrapped into autism, so typically it’s autism level one, because the people often have very low support needs. But they do come off as eccentric, let’s say.
It is a misconception that all autistic people lack empathy. It varies greatly among individuals, both autistic and neurotypical. Actually, some autistic people can experience a really wide range of empathetic experiences and be super empathetic to the point that sometimes it’s overwhelming for them, which is sometimes when you get some meltdowns or withdrawal or something like that.
Elon Musk himself I don’t actually know him personally, I mean from afar it looks like he has very low empathy though, so I would say that statement is more specific to him than autistic individuals in general.
We talk about all kinds of stuff in this episode, but we do typically bring it back to money and how to decrease fear around money. She gives you some real concrete actions to take in this one, so stick with us. All right, let’s jump in. I hope everyone is healthy and safe. Peace.
Hi Joan. Welcome back to the Hypnotize Me podcast.
(It’s great to be here.)
Yeah, I thought of you. Actually, a financial planner reached out to me to be on the podcast and I thought really I’d love to have Joan on again, because she really talks about the emotional aspects of money and people feel, let’s say, unsettled right now so we’re recording this in March of 2025, and they’re feeling very unsettled around money, the markets, all this stuff. So I thought it would be wonderful to have you come on and give your perspective around that.
0:03:44 – Joan Sotkin
Well, let’s say that what you feel about money is a good way about learning more about yourself, because whatever you’re feeling about money has nothing to do with money. It has to do with the feelings that you’re bringing to money. So let’s look at the possibilities. Okay, first of all, right now, there is, I think you can say, a great deal of uncertainty.
0:04:18 – Dr. Liz
Yes.
0:04:19 – Joan Sotkin
Okay, and your brain is wired to warn you during times of uncertainty, because you don’t know the outcome and we are getting that in spades right now, and it doesn’t matter what your financial position. I mean, they’re talking about the businesses and how they don’t know what to plan because of the uncertainty. And your amygdala’s job that’s that piece in your brain is to keep you safe. So, during times of uncertainty, it tells you to be afraid. So it’s your brain. Your brain is telling you it’s dangerous and you need to protect yourself, which is a perception because, right this minute, most of you who are listening are not in danger.
(Uh-huh, yeah, there’s no tiger coming at us.)
No, there are no tigers in the woods. And if you have enough to eat and a place to stay, then at this moment in time you’re probably safe. And we’re just trained to just go to money as the danger point, and particularly since there’s so much money talk going on in the chaos.
(Yes, there is.)
It’s like it’s crazy and we keep hearing the richest man in the world. I feel sorry for him because he’s got to be really alone. I mean, his behavior is crazy. He has said he’s got Asperger’s, which could mean that his empathy level is low, and that’s clear. So you have to look at what’s actually going on. And if you look at what’s going on, you’ll see that the courts are responding very fully to his. You know, to stop a lot of this it’s just going to take longer than you want it to and there will be disruption. There’s no doubt about it. I’ve been talking about the chaos for a long time.
You know I got this message in 1976 that we were going into a period of great chaos, that many people will leave the planet, that the chaos in the Middle East will get so bad people will say how could a benevolent God allow this to happen? And that people are being trained to be points of light in the midst of the chaos.
0:07:07 – Dr. Liz
Okay, so you think we’re finally there.
0:07:10 – Joan Sotkin
I think we’re still on the edges of it. Okay, because it’s happening all over the world. It’s not just in the United States, oh yeah.
0:07:19 – Dr. Liz
Right.
0:07:19 – Joan Sotkin
It’s happening all over with the right wing politics and what they’re calling populism, which hurts the people rather than helps them. And so this is what’s going on. And the problem is, when you’re in the chaos and your brain is going be afraid, it’s very difficult to make good decisions. Because your life is the result of your decisions. Okay, and so if you give into the fear, because that’s what you think is happening, and remember our brains are wired to keep us safe, so it always looks for the negative, mm-hmm, you have to bring the positive to your brain so that that’s what your subconscious is acting on.
Okay, which is not always easy to do when there’s this much chaos.
There has been chaos before during the Civil War, but we don’t remember that. Yeah, we don’t. I mean, I think you’ve lived through many periods of chaos the Vietnam War, Right, and you know, my thing has always been what can I do?
And during the Vietnam War, I was an activist and I was organizing demonstrations that would get good press coverage. That allowed me to feel I was doing something to help the situation. And it did, because the protesting in those days really made a difference. You know, I’m too old at this point to be out there protesting. My body doesn’t want to do that, so I’m talking a lot about coping with the chaos, because we must do that or we’re going to get sick.
Because when you’re in fear, your brain is putting out cortisol, which is the stress hormone, and that is the basis of a lot of physical disease. So, and the idea is to train your brain. So, instead of there’s a lot of cortisol, there’s serotonin, which is the brain chemical that leads to satisfaction and contentment. So how do you do that on a day-to-day basis? Yeah, in other words, how do you counteract the fear?
The first time they started talking about getting rid of social security, I had those moments of fear and I had to remind myself that it hasn’t happened yet. Mm, hmm. And I don’t need to make up a story about what’s going to happen, because when you’re in the future fear, you’re making up a story (For sure.). Yes, so the trick is to make up a different story. So when that happened, I took a deep breath and did some deep breathing and just imagined that the courts were going to, you know, stopping Social Security. They can’t. I mean, the chances of them actually doing that are smaller than the chances of them doing it, particularly since the market is tanking the way it’s been tanking and Tesla stock has been tanking. I mean, they had a a tesla sale on the white house lawn, um yesterday and he had a bunch of teslas there and said, uh, trump said he was buying a tesla and of course musk was there, was there and it’s illegal.
0:11:27 – Dr. Liz
I don’t follow the news a whole lot right now. I had no idea, it sounds like a bad car show
Joan
and that is actually illegal
Dr. Liz
I was going to say
0:12:02 – Joan Sotkin
Because it’s not legal to sell things on the White House lawn. Uh-huh, so everything is topsy-turvy. Yes, there are going to be moments of fear. If you’re one of the people that has been laid off, you’re going to have a lot of fear. I can’t tell you everything’s going to get well fast, but the more you can be still, the more apt you will be to come up with a solution for you.
I can’t tell you what those solutions are. You have to find them for yourself. The people are becoming outspoken about what has happened to them. If you’re watching if you’re not watching Fox News, you’ll see that people are telling the truth about what’s going on. Well, they’re going to be stories for a while. Once some of this is reversed, which could take two years because we may have to wait for the midterms it’s going to take a while to rebuild everything, because things are going to start falling apart.
I mean, if you look at what’s going on, it’s moving so fast. I mean they warned us in Project 2025 that this is going to happen and it’s happening. So now you know the Democrats are doing their best to figure out solutions. It’s not easy, because when you’ve got a bully in charge, it’s hard to counteract it, it’s hard to counteract it and my heart goes out to the people who have lost their jobs, and for no reason.
Musk knows nothing about how the government is run. The thing that’s hurting him is the downturn of the Tesla stock, which is why they’re having the Tesla sale on the White House lawn. I mean well it’s interesting.
0:13:49 – Dr. Liz
I took a seminar recently with a professional that talked about the autistic brain, because I do adult autism evaluations as well as neurodivergent positive psychotherapy. They did say, like the autistic brain is very transactional, like when they do brain scans on people. In that moment it just explained to me like oh, this is why Elon was a huge anti-Trump. And then all of a sudden switched. It’s like, oh, Trump can give me something, so now I’m going to support him. And so it just sort of explained it that in that moment. He said like often they’ll switch friend groups when this friend group isn’t giving them something that they need or want. You know, suddenly they’re into Star Wars instead of Batman and so boom, the Star Wars group is all their BFFs now. And along the way, the people in the Batman group are feeling hurt, right, like why aren’t you my friend anymore? But anyway, it was really interesting to hear it talked about that way and it suddenly like made some sense for me. So, yeah, very transactional, and what that also means is he could quickly switch back.
0:15:04 – Joan Sotkin
yes, yes, when he decides he’s like the Tesla stock and all the people who are standing in front of the Tesla things and people and the Tesla sales are down in Europe extremely hard. So Trump is the same way. He’s very transactional.
0:15:26 – Dr. Liz
He is.
0:15:28 – Joan Sotkin
Yes, whatever his divergence is, it’s.
0:15:30 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, but he is extremely transactional.
0:15:37 – Dr. Liz
like telling him like it is.
0:15:38 – Joan Sotkin
There are other people like that. Yes, but the country is based on serving people. Yes, not selling people, correct? You know, so I always, I have trained myself to believe that there’s a positive and negative to everything, okay, that we live in a dualistic reality where, even on an atomic level, there is plus and minus, and that this is the polarity we’re now seeing the plus and the minus. The minus just happens to be louder than the plus. It’s like the yin and yang.
0:16:24 – Dr. Liz
Yeah.
0:16:25 – Joan Sotkin
You know the yang is very outgoing, the yin is the feminine ingoing right, yes. So it’s a matter of the yin people being a little more prominent.
0:16:43 – Dr. Liz
Mm-hmm.
0:16:44 – Joan Sotkin
In other words, instead of cowering in fear, I believe that if those of us who have been meditating for years start sending out healing energy to the planet and to Donald Trump and Elon Musk where, instead of buying into the fear, we’re counteracting it with a different energy I mean this may sound obscure to some people, but it’s all about energy. Money is energy. It’s all about energy, and if you’re generating fear, you’re not helping the situation at all. So go out in nature and let yourself feel the trees and the leaves and the flowers and the bugs and all those things who couldn’t care less what’s going on on the front lawn of the White House, to let yourself be. I think that meditation is a form of dissociation.
0:17:51 – Dr. Liz
Okay.
0:17:52 – Joan Sotkin
It takes you to another dimension.
0:17:55 – Dr. Liz
It does yeah.
0:17:56 – Joan Sotkin
Okay, so does that mean that dissociation is bad? No, it probably has some positive aspects. It lets you rise above the pain.
0:18:09 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I’ve always seen dissociation as actually a skill, a skill that people develop.
0:18:17 – Joan Sotkin
Yes, right, and that’s what meditation is. You’re going someplace else.
0:18:22 – Dr. Liz
Yes, if you can use it voluntarily, even better.
0:18:25 – Joan Sotkin
Yes, I’ve been meditating since 1972. So I think I have a little practice under my belt, so to speak. Yeah, it’s a highly developed skill for you get into theta, whatever it is, it feels good yeah and to be able to see the possibility of what’s going on now, which is that we’re seeing the corruption in all of its glory true we can’t hide it anymore, and for those who you know, the bros who really like what Donald Trump is doing, they’re going to get hurt too.
So it’s just going to take time for the energy to shift.
If all of you who have been meditating will work to get out of the fear and into satisfaction and contentment and hope. I asked ChatGPT what are the brain chemicals that are generated by hope? And the answer is serotonin and oxytocin. Right, if you can find a piece of hope and hold on to it, listen to enough news to know like Rachel Maddow. And if you’re not on cable, you can see it on YouTube. And when you see all the people out there protesting, let that give you hope, because the minute you allow yourself to feel just a spark of hope, your brain goes oh, that feels good and you’re counteracting cortisol, which doesn’t help you one little bit, and you’re teaching your brain a new response to familiar stimuli.
0:20:44 – Dr. Liz
Okay, that feels more doable for me Because, honestly, during Trump’s first term, I tried to do compassionate meditation, sending him good energy. Finally, I gave up, joan. I was like I just can’t do this and I’m not, I’m not doing it.
0:20:59 – Joan Sotkin
But it’s a matter of this phrase that I’ve been using for a long time is developing new responses to familiar stimuli.
0:21:11 – Dr. Liz
Okay.
0:21:12 – Joan Sotkin
To me, that’s the key you know what are you feeling, what would you rather be feeling, and do you know how to feel that? Because if you don’t know what you’d rather be feeling, your brain hasn’t been trained to feel that.
0:21:28 – Dr. Liz
That’s true. I mean I am able to move to neutral, sometimes not really positive, but to me what gives me hope actually is that I consider him on his own spiritual path, like somehow in the life between lives he chose to come back and fulfill this role and that that’s somehow spiritually part of all of our journeys.
0:21:55 – Joan Sotkin
And what if it’s an important part of our journey? Yeah, I mean, I’m 84 years old and so I remember the times of chaos and I have the experience of coming out of chaos. I had measles as a child. Now we’re back to measles again. I mean, everything is upside down right now, so it’s probably easier for me to switch feelings because of my muscle memory, as they call it. For new people, people in their 30s, 40s they’ve never learned to deal with this kind of chaos, it’s true, okay, so, which is why I feel it’s part of my job to help people cope with the chaos.
0:22:49 – Dr. Liz
Yes, Well, you’re running a group right One Friday a month.
0:22:52 – Joan Sotkin
Right now I’m in the midst of moving, Talk about chaos.
0:22:55 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I just moved, it was chaos.
0:22:59 – Joan Sotkin
I have an analogy. Do you know your junk drawer where you put everything that you don’t want to deal with in the moment? Well, even though I live fairly minimalist, whatever is left now is pretty much the junk drawer. It’s just they’re bigger pieces Like where do you recycle this? Do I put this in the garbage? What am I supposed to do with that? Yes, there are so many decisions. Yes, all those decisions you didn’t want to make when you put things in the junk drawer, when you move, you have to deal with every one of those decisions, or just come in and have someone haul it away. There are actually companies that will haul it all away, but I’m so adapted to recycling and composting and, you know, will I be able to move on the right day so I don’t miss the compost people who pick up, you know I think that’s what.
0:24:05 – Dr. Liz
I hadn’t recognized it till this moment, but I got some decision fatigue yes, I was like yeah, I’m just packing this and I will deal with it later yes, yes, you’re creating a new junk drawer. It was just like about 50 boxes of junk drawer Right. The other 50 I made decisions on.
0:24:26 – Joan Sotkin
I have a storage shed on my in the back of my house, and I I opened the door the other day and I see what’s in there, and then I closed the door. I totally get it. And I’m not even sure where I’m moving, although I think I have found the right place. So remember, your brain is designed to look for the negative.
0:24:54 – Dr. Liz
Yes.
0:24:55 – Joan Sotkin
And those of us who can stay in hope are the savior. Okay, if you’re worried about money, don’t spend it, which is a whole lot of a difficult thing for people to do. Yeah, but the thing is we don’t know what’s happening with the money system. The wealthy people will always do well, because they’ve got enough socked away. It doesn’t matter. My first spiritual teacher said to me Joan, worrying is a waste of time and I thought what a concept. I didn’t know anything about brain chemistry at the time and so.
I’ve been working on not worrying for a long time and I’ll tell you it works really well to not be a worry ward.
0:25:43 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, easier said than done though.
0:25:46 – Joan Sotkin
But because your brain is habituated to worry.
0:25:50 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I like to see it as a practice versus an either or.
0:25:56 – Joan Sotkin
Absolutely so, like when I would worry about money and understanding that I was making up a story. So I would say to myself a large sum of money from an unexpected source.
0:26:09 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I love it. I use that all the time since I learned from you years ago.
0:26:14 – Joan Sotkin
Yes, which means you’re making up a different story, yes, and then I would try to imagine all the different places that money could be coming from, and I knew that that wasn’t what’s going to happen, because I was making up a story. But it didn’t matter. My brain got the message.
0:26:34 – Dr. Liz
Yes, well, you know, I know you’ll believe this. I don’t say that all the time, but occasionally, a couple of times a year, it’ll occur to me when I start worrying about money and I’ll say no, a large sum of money from an unexpected source. And more often than not it actually happens. Some crazy check shows up. You know, I had that the other day. I got a refund from the dermatologist of all people. It’s the only medical refund I think I’ve ever gotten and I got a check the other day for 350 because I had overpaid escrow yes, yeah, I still have like little checks coming in from the sale of my house right.
0:27:22 – Joan Sotkin
And you know I’m looking around. What can I sell? Because I’m going from a three bedroom house, that’s, you know, sixteen hundred square feet, to a thousand square feet. Well, I better sell something. And so it gives me what to think about. And I don’t think about, well, will I get enough? You know, I just I’m taking action, and when you begin to expect the best, you know the most comfortable. There is no good or bad, there only is what is and how you respond to what is. So I know what’s comfortable for me and I’m imagining those things happening.
0:28:01 – Dr. Liz
Okay, so imagine something positive happening.
0:28:04 – Joan Sotkin
Yes, and I don’t even see it as positive and negative. I don’t. I don’t use the term negative emotions. I see what’s comfortable or not comfortable for me.
0:28:16 – Dr. Liz
Got it, got it.
0:28:17 – Joan Sotkin
What’s comfortable for Elon Musk is very different from what is comfortable for me. Yes, I care about other people, I have a high degree of empathy, but I also know you’ve heard me talk about empathetic detachment. Yes, I can understand your pain, but I can’t fix it. Yes, I can help you fix it. I have the feeling and the belief that each of us has our own karma, so to speak. I don’t believe things happen by accident and I see a bigger picture.
I’ve been into metaphysics since I was in my 20s and I read in one of the books along the way that we have all those cells in our body that make up our body and that people are just cells in the body of the planet, and the planet is just a cell in the body of the solar system and the solar system is just a cell in the body of the galaxy. What’s going on on the earth right now is it’s sick, there’s a cancer that’s taking over, there’s dis-ease. I like that dis happening is just what’s happening. And if you’re denying climate change and you’re denying pollution and you’re rah-rah for the oil companies, that’s what’s affecting the energy of the cells on this planet. And so, if you look at it from that point of view, it’s like taking a spaceship and going out there. It’s like when we first saw the Earth from outer space. Yes, you know, it changed our view of the world. And it was just, you know, this amazing blue dot in the midst of all the other dots, yes, and which, for me, allows me to take myself a little less seriously, me to take myself a little less seriously and, yes, and and to realize I’m just part of a much larger system. And if I keep smiling, if I do my best to keep my brain healthy and for me that’s been quite a job, because I had post-sepsis syndrome I, in October I had a little mini stroke that that my brain is my most precious thing and that I have to do what I can, yeah, so it’s your choice.
The thing is, nothing’s happening to you, it’s happening through you and you get to decide what you want going through you, and we haven’t been taught that. We have the power to decide. So don’t think you’re a victim. We’re living in an age of victimhood. We’ve got a president who is the victim in chief and you don’t have to be a victim. You have control of who you are and how you’re living in the world, and that’s hard for people to hear. You know, I’m someone who is spiritual, not religious, and I study all the religions of the world and they all have something of value in them. But you know, I love the phrase the kingdom of God is within you, and what does that mean? Have we ever looked at what that means and how, how, when we tune into that very high level part of ourselves, we can find our answers? I don’t care how smart or not smart you are, your answers are there, you just have to. How many people have said to me I’ve got an inner voice, but I’m afraid to follow it. Well, follow it.
0:32:58 – Dr. Liz
Yeah right, it’s tuning in and listening.
0:33:01 – Joan Sotkin
You know I have I’ve been using the phrase the truth of you shall set you free. Not the truth shall set you free, but the truth of you. And to me, the journey of life is that journey towards self-knowledge. Whatever’s going on, what is this telling me about me? When someone comes along and criticizes you. They’re usually telling you about them.
Yes, so instead of saying oh, my God, there must be something wrong with me, it’s like, oh, where are they? And how can I have compassion for them, for being so uncomfortable?
0:33:43 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I think the both is necessary and for my personal life, it’s like, okay, I have to take a look and say is that accurate? Are they giving me some feedback about something I have the ability to change, that I need to look at, and at the same time, it is telling me about them.
0:34:03 – Joan Sotkin
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And to accept the acceptance piece is so important. I did a podcast episode on my sub stack on the art of acceptance and I think it’s on Spotify too. And I was born with a genetic problem. I wasn’t given a label for it until I was 65. That has limited me in some ways. Now I could spend all my time kvetching about what I can’t do.
0:34:36 – Dr. Liz
True.
0:34:37 – Joan Sotkin
It’s send to back. Being to front, which is a computer command. You know what doesn’t work doesn’t have to be prominent, because when you start looking for what does work, you know what works for you. You I see that because of this genetic problem I have learned a lot about nutrition and the body and how it works and how to make it more comfortable. And you know that’s why I love chat GPT, because it’s got a lot of basic information.
0:35:15 – Dr. Liz
Okay, well, we’re coming to the end of our time here. But tell people how to find you and how to work with you if they’d like to do that and we’ve talked about a lot of different stuff here but tell them what your focus is.
0:35:31 – Joan Sotkin
My focus is helping people how their emotions are affecting their decisions Okay, and that it’s never about the money and emotions are not dangerous or hard to deal with. Once you understand your brain and how it works Not my brain, not Liz’s brain, but your brain and to understand that you’re unique and to understand how your childhood experiences are affecting your decisions today and affecting your financial outcomes, and so I do do this free gathering every month, once a month.
I do do this free gathering every month, once a month. It’s a very safe place where you know you can share what’s going on, to realize that you do have choices. So if you go to prosperityplacecom, you’ll find everything I do, including the money coaching and you know everything I do starts there, and you can always set up a call to talk to me. I love to talk to people.
0:36:42 – Dr. Liz
Okay, great. Yeah, there’s lots of information on that site. So you’re doing the group and you’re still doing personal coaching too, though oh, absolutely. Okay, great. Well, good luck on your move.
0:36:54 – Joan Sotkin
Oh, thank you. Thank you, it seems to be moving along fine.
0:36:59 – Dr. Liz
Good, and thank you again for being on the podcast.
0:37:03 – Joan Sotkin
My pleasure and I love to meet new people, and I thank you all for listening.
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