HM312 Help for IBS and GI Disorders with Dr. Ali Navidi

Dr. Navidi specializes in Hypnosis for GI Disorders and is a wealth of information that he shares with us on the podcast.  We talk about:

·       Underlying disorders

·       ARFID

·       How hypnosis works to help people feel better

·       Why some sessions are recorded and some are not

·       Interactive vs receptive hypnosis

·       Advanced hypnosis techniques

·       Apps like Nerva and whether they’re helpful

About Dr. Ali Navidi

Dr. Ali Navidi is a licensed clinical psychologist, one of the founders of GI Psychology and one of the founders and past president of the Northern Virginia Society of Clinical Hypnosis (NVSCH). Dr. Navidi has been helping patients with GI disorders, chronic pain and complex medical issues for over ten years for

• Kids, adolescents and adults
• Patients with Gastrointestinal (GI) Problems
• Patients with complex medical issues and chronic pain
• Clinical Hypnosis & Brief Therapy
• Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)

Get help through Dr. Navidi’s practice for children, adolescents, and adults in the US at https://www.gipsychology.com/

Dr. Liz also offers Gut Directed hypnosis for adults in the US and Internationally. Contact her through her website https://www.drlizhypnosis.com

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Search episodes at the Podcast Page http://bit.ly/HM-podcast

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About Dr. Liz

Interested in hypnosis with Dr. Liz? Schedule your free consultation at https://www.drlizhypnosis.com

Winner of numerous awards including Top 100 Moms in Business, Dr. Liz provides psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and hypnosis to people wanting a fast, easy way to transform all around the world. She has a PhD in Clinical Psychology, is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor (LMHC) and has special certification in Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy. Specialty areas include Anxiety, Insomnia, and Deeper Emotional Healing.

A problem shared is a problem halved. In person and online hypnosis and CBT for healing and transformation.

Listened to in over 140 countries, Hypnotize Me is the podcast about hypnosis, transformation, and healing. Certified hypnotherapist and Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Dr. Liz Bonet, discusses hypnosis and interviews professionals doing transformational work.

Transcript

0:00:00 – Dr. Liz
Hi everyone. Dr Liz here, welcome to the Hypnotize Me podcast. I’m glad you’re here, glad you’re listening and learning, and hopefully it will help you with your journey along the way. I am a psychotherapist with a specialty in anxiety, insomnia and deeper emotional healing. Hypnosis is one of the tools in my toolbox that I use to help people feel better and help people is one of the tools in my toolbox that I use to help people feel better and help people be better. I do work all over the world. Please feel free to reach out and contact me if you would like some help.

I’ve been an entrepreneur for most of my adult life, built an award-winning company, sold it and then focused mainly on my private practice. That gives you a unique perspective, especially my ability to work with people in business at all kinds of levels. Before I go, if you’d like to support the podcast, you can go and subscribe to the newsletter and you’ll get free hypnosis downloads that you can listen to immediately. Another way is to buy one of the downloads that I have for sale. I only have a couple up there, but they’re good ones. They’ve stood the test of time. I made the decision to not run ads during my podcast because I really do see it as an act of service. I completely respect people who do have ads on their podcast, but it’s just not my path. All right, everyone enjoy the episode and I hope to see you back here soon.

Hey everyone.

Dr Liz here, the podcast has been on a bit of a break because I moved from South Florida the Fort Lauderdale area, which is just north of Miami to North Florida, Jacksonville, which is right south of Georgia. So it’s been a huge move for me. I’ve been in South Florida 30 plus years and so this was a big change I was making. So the last couple of weeks I’ve been unpacking at my old house, unpacking in the new house, setting up the home office. I found it was quite echoey so I had to order some acoustic tiles to like put on the walls and carpet for the floor and try to make it to where it was not so echoey. When I recorded I really thought I might have to record in my closet, which a lot of podcasters do. That would not really be a problem, but it is more convenient to be able to record at my desk rather than the closet.

So the interview today is with Dr Navidi, who is a specialist in hypnosis for GI disorders, functional abdominal pain, ibs. We have a great conversation because I’ve been doing hypnosis for IBS abdominal functional pain, reflux, those types of disorders for probably five years now, maybe six, maybe a little bit longer than that, I’m not sure. It’s not a huge percentage of my practice, but I definitely have people that come in for it from time to time. Right now I’m all virtual, but in the past it’s been in person as well, but it’s always an interesting part of my practice and I love helping people that way. And his whole practice is focused on that. He has quite a large practice and they see people in all 50 states, which is fantastic. And they see adults and children and adolescents, which is also great. Adults and children and adolescents, which is also great. I only see adults. So what a great resource.

So we talk about all kinds of stuff during this interview, like what types of hypnosis to do and when to seek treatment with hypnosis. That’s always a big question, like when do you try that? Often it’s when people have tried everything else. Sometimes they come in a little bit earlier than that. One patient I had is referred by the head of Stanford’s clinic because it’s such a reputable treatment hypnosis for IBS but often you’ll run into GI specialists who just poo-poo it, who, like quote unquote, don’t believe in it. And it’s like look, hypnosis is not a faith-based medicine. It is well-researched and someone doesn’t have to believe in hypnosis for it to work either. So anyway, occasionally you run into doctors like that. The more knowledgeable ones typically recommend hypnosis as part of someone’s treatment. I’ve talked way too long today, so let’s jump into the interview. I hope you’re healthy and safe. Peace. Hi, dr Navidi. Welcome to the Hypnotize Me podcast.

0:05:00 – Dr. Navidi
Hi, good to meet you. I’m glad to be here. I’m always happy to talk hypnosis with someone.

0:05:05 – Dr. Liz
Yep, me too, me too. It’s always a fascinating conversation, I will say so. We’re going to just start with how you first became a psychologist and then also how you started doing hypnosis.

0:05:18 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, so I was a microbiology major. Really, I was a microbiology major.

0:05:23 – Dr. Liz
Really.

0:05:24 – Dr. Navidi
And then I did biotech work for a few years at a couple companies. I remember I was doing yeast exocytosis research, yeah, I don’t even know what that is really.

I don’t even think I know what it is anymore either. I think it had something to do with a vesicle or something. Anyway, luckily and I was about to go and do my do like a PhD in biochemistry, because I just didn’t want to be a lab monkey for the rest of my life you got to get your PhD. So luckily I’ve got a wife that’s a lot smarter than me and she kind of sat me down and was like, look, you might want to consider doing something you actually really are passionate about. She knew I was just constantly reading books about hypnosis, about psychology, and just practicing on anyone around me. So luckily, I listened to her and, long story short, I shifted over and now I’m a clinical psychologist.

0:06:36 – Dr. Liz
Wonderful. So I know. For me going through grad school, I didn’t actually discover hypnosis until I don’t know like 20 years out of grad school actually. So it sounds like for you it happened before you went to grad school.

0:06:52 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, it was interesting. When I think back, I actually I think as a teenager I found this. I just remember it was like this little black book and it was old school hypnosis, like really directive stuff was written in maybe the sixties or seventies and and it was a family vacation and I got all my cousins and my sisters together and one by one, I just tried the stuff in the book, just just for the heck of it, and it worked on some and it didn’t work on others.

0:07:27 – Dr. Liz
But that was probably my first experience with it, that is yeah and did you go to a program that um taught hypnosis like mine? Didn’t even I. There was not a class. I know there wasn’t.

0:07:40 – Dr. Navidi
No, no, no not at all, not at all. My first internship. It was interesting. I wasn’t like the, the supervisor. He actually was trained in hypnosis and told me that I wasn’t allowed to do hypnosis.

0:07:57 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, probably Right. Because, there’s all kinds of regulations around it for psychologists. There’s actually more for psychologists than there are someone who doesn’t have a degree.

0:08:08 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, someone who doesn’t have a degree can just do a weekend training and put out a shingle Right. But but no, so I was. I got involved with the American society for clinical hypnosis, ash. I saw that you also have been associated with them and they do some great training. So I was doing as much ASH training as I could, and I still do so. I think they’re a great organization.

0:08:43 – Dr. Liz
They are and for the listeners they’re a wonderful way to actually find an hypnosis practitioner. They have a tab on their website where you could find someone in your state, close to you, probably, depending on where you are. But yeah, they’re a really good resource.

0:09:02 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, they are.

0:09:03 – Dr. Liz
So then, how did you start specializing in IBS?

0:09:09 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, it was an Ash training and I wish I remember the name of the guy. He worked out of NIH and he did a talk and at least part of the talk was on IBS, hypnosis for IBS and at the time, hypnosis for. Ibs and at the time I remember thinking I’m never going to use this, Like I wasn’t really doing a specialty in health psych.

but you know I learned it. And then I had a patient that had responded already well to hypnosis and and had IBS and I said, well, you know you want to try this out. And they did. They knew I hadn’t done it before, they knew I’d been trained. So I gave it a shot. It worked great. And you know that led to another and another and, and as I’m kind of doing it more, I’m learning, I’m reading as much as I can. I tried, you know, finding other trainings. And then the doctors in the area, the gastroenterologists, start kind of knowing me and referring more and more patients and before I know it, it’s like 80% of my practice that chronic pain and chronic pain yeah.

You know, you know, you just end up with a lot of complex medical cases, yes and uh, and throughout it I kind of developed my own way of of doing it.

0:10:33 – Dr. Liz
I was gonna ask you do you? Did you start out with the palson protocol um, or one of the manchesters, or no?

0:10:41 – Dr. Navidi
no, you didn’t I didn’t, I just um. I kind of learned some of the principles from the training I did and then just kind of came up with the rest on my own, and that’s I mean I believe in learning the right way, but my personality is I always kind of come up with my own little twist on things.

0:11:03 – Dr. Liz
Creative, then it’s a creative process.

0:11:06 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, very much so. It’s very in the moment kind of adapting things, but that’s just my personal style.

0:11:14 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I have a mentor who, when I first started doing hypnosis, I actually met him at a conference, florida Society of Clinical Hypnosis, which is a state subsidiary of ASH, which we just talked about and you know, funnily enough it’s called FISH, right. But I met him there and he quickly asked me he’s like are you what happens when you read a script? And I said I almost always end up changing it somehow, like I can never read a script like completely as it’s written all the way through.

He’s like okay, so that means like you’re more on the creative side, like it’s a creative, intuitive process, and he really affirmed that that that’s okay. You know that that’s actually a really beneficial process because you’re in his perspective, you’re tuning into the client. That’s what you’re doing and what that client really needs, and I do. The Palson Protocol, which is a protocol for the listeners developed out of University of North Carolina, chapel Hill. There’s a lot of research on it out of the medical school there. So they even took tissue samples of the bowel for the hypnosis versus the non-hypnosis group and the bowel tissue changes, which is amazing. Like I you know I don’t even understand how all that works really, but I know it does and so I definitely use that protocol.

But at the same time I’ve had many cases where I adapted it to really what the client needed and is going through, and for reflux as well. So it started out strictly for IBS, but I think they even did research about adapting it for reflux and had incredible success with that. Like people who are not eating anything like felt like their diet was so limited, able to eat chocolate again and have coffee and spicy food. I remember one client who she emailed me later, this is after working with her for a while, a couple months or so and she said I had Thai food. I’m so excited, like it’s amazing, the difference it can make for people. I’m sure you have similar experiences, for that.

0:13:35 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, so um. So once so at a certain point in my career, you know I had this specialty and I realized that you know I’m in the DC metro area and there’s nobody else on an outpatient basis who could see, um, see kids and adolescents uh, gi with GI issues, and knew how to use hypnosis, like put those three together and there was nobody there.

Yeah, um, and actually, by the way, um, I helped found the, um, the Northern Virginia chapter, which which once I I guess, um, eventually they’ve kind of broken up, but it was after I stopped having time to really participate.

0:14:22 – Dr. Liz
Yeah.

0:14:23 – Dr. Navidi
So so long story short, I eventually started this bigger practice. Gi psychology uh.

And it’s goes by the same website, just G I psychologycom, and the whole idea was that there aren’t enough people trained to do this kind of gut brain therapy For sure, and so that’s what we want to do. So I’m in charge of training, so at this point I’ve trained maybe 15, 20 people on this stuff. I rely heavily on the Paulson. I feel like it’s a good like training wheels for people when they’re getting started, you know, and then, as they get more experience, they can start modifying it and kind of going off script, but it’s, it’s like a safe place for them to come back to you know when they when they’re unsure about something.

And now Paulson has retired but he’s actually gonna work with us on a study Awesome that’s awesome.

0:15:24 – Dr. Liz
What’s the study gonna be?

0:15:26 – Dr. Navidi
I think it’s just looking at the results of his protocol like out in the wild, so not in a controlled like kind of university medical center situation, but out in the outpatient world where things get more complicated yeah.

0:15:44 – Dr. Liz
Awesome, that’s great, great. Oh, I’ll be so interested to hear the results of that. Eventually, I’m sure it’ll get published.

0:15:54 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, with his name on it, of course.

0:15:58 – Dr. Liz
That’s a nice look up, huh.

0:16:00 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, it is, and he’s such a nice guy. He’s hilarious. If you ever get a chance to hear him speak, he’s the funniest guy and just really knows his stuff when it comes to hypnosis.

0:16:10 – Dr. Liz
I did attend a webinar of his and, yeah, he was excellent. It’s always nicer when someone’s funny during the presentation or relatable Totally. Yeah, it makes it more tolerable. No one wants to sit through a boring webinar right when someone’s just reading slides or something.

0:16:30 – Dr. Navidi
Oh yeah, those are the worst.

0:16:32 – Dr. Liz
They are yeah. So how did you get connected with him? Did you just reach out?

0:16:38 – Dr. Navidi
Let’s see, I think we were at I think it was DDW, so that’s like digestive disease week, it’s like the big gastroenterological conference and within that they were having like a little side training for GI psychologists.

0:16:59 – Dr. Liz
Okay.

0:17:00 – Dr. Navidi
And he was doing kind of this. He was part of a panel of like four people who were doing specific GI related hypnosis topics.

0:17:10 – Dr. Liz
Got it Okay.

0:17:11 – Dr. Navidi
And so that’s how we met him and then we just kind of kept in touch and it was my business partner. She co-founded GI Psychology with me. She was the one that just approached him and started chatting and it turned out he was interested in working together.

0:17:29 – Dr. Liz
Great, great. So you serve the Washington DC area and you’re doing in person, I’m assuming.

0:17:37 – Dr. Navidi
So if you’re talking about GI psychology, the bigger practice we’re completely telehealth and we’re in all 50 states.

0:17:44 – Dr. Liz
All 50 states be part of PSYPACT or we can do that with hypnosis.

0:17:50 – Dr. Navidi
No, no, no, no. This is. This is again my partner cause. She does the operation side of the business. She figured out between side pack and then getting individual licenses for states. She managed to cobble together all 50 states so we’re able to see patients.

0:18:10 – Dr. Liz
Incredible. So for the listener side, psypac is a. Typically, when you’re licensed as a psychologist, you’re licensed in a particular state, meaning like you cannot practice in another state. Each state has their own licensing. It depends on the state. Sometimes it’s very difficult to get licensed in another state that you want to practice in. It’s actually been a historical problem. When people want to move, it restricts them often from moving. So there was an organization that came up and said hey, let’s find a solution to this and you can join this compact organization and it’ll let you practice in other states without having to be licensed in that state. Now hypnosis, I’ve known, is a loophole often in the licensing laws where you can often practice in another state. Sometimes you have to register with them, do something like that, but it’s not strictly like I can’t do psychotherapy in another state that I’m not licensed in, but I could do some hypnosis actually. So it’s sort of a gray area there.

0:19:16 – Dr. Navidi
And for us, we’re always doing our hypnosis within psychotherapy, you know. But you could do hypnosis outside of psychotherapy exactly like you’re saying. That’s true.

0:19:31 – Dr. Liz
Yes, that’s a fantastic resource. My own daughter, my 18-year-old has some significant GI issues and luckily I know someone who specializes in that and she happens to be in Florida. But you are right, I live in a huge area South Florida, Miami-Dade, Broward County and there’s no one here that really does that, so that’s an incredible resource for people. If you’re listening to this and either yourself or you have a kid who’s going through it and you don’t really know how to help them, so that’s fantastic. Oh, so happy to hear that.

0:20:07 – Dr. Navidi
And that’s the message I you know. That’s why I’m doing podcasts and stuff like that. The message I want to get out there is A if you have these disorders, and if you’re talking about just IBS, one in 10 people have it. If you’re talking about the broader what’s called disorders of gut brain interaction, or used to be called functional GI disorders, which include like dyspepsia, nausea, vomiting, all kinds of disorders 40% of people at some point in their life are going to have one of those disorders, so they are insanely common.

0:20:45 – Dr. Liz
I did not know. Is that high? That’s incredibly high, do you think it’s?

0:20:52 – Dr. Navidi
the same in Italy. When you look at the worldwide data, it holds true. Wow, okay.

0:20:59 – Dr. Liz
You know how they always say like the Italian diet is so much better. I’m like is that? A function of being in the US or that’s worldwide data.

0:21:07 – Dr. Navidi
No, it’s worldwide. And here’s the thing. It’s not really caused by so much what we eat. It’s caused by that interaction between our brain and our gut. Now we might have other problems because of what we eat. You know what I mean. But these aren’t necessarily caused by the food that we eat. But they can be exacerbated by the food Once we have one of these disorders of gut-brain interaction.

0:21:36 – Dr. Liz
What do you think the underpinnings are?

0:21:39 – Dr. Navidi
I would say essentially, like the metaphor I use with a lot of patients is, if you had a computer, this would be a software problem versus a hardware problem. So someone with these problems is going to go into the doctor and you probably know it from your daughter. They’re going to get checked out, they’re going to be potentially scoped and they’re not going to find anything wrong structurally. But the problem is how the central nervous system is interacting with the enteric nervous system. Now, who tends to get these disorders? Often it’s patients with anxiety.

Now, who tends to get these disorders? Often it’s patients with anxiety, patients who have a history of trauma, have a history or currently have an eating disorder, and then, finally, patients that are on the spectrum. Those are the four groups that get it more often, even though more people than that can get it, of course. So if we think about that, I suspect that the fundamental underpinning of the problem is when we start to fear our own body’s reactions to things. Right, there’s a very frequent pattern that you see where somebody gets sick and then, after they’re done being sick, they still have symptoms.

0:22:57 – Dr. Liz
Yes.

0:22:58 – Dr. Navidi
And so what can often happen? I think they almost call it. They call it like the PTSD of the gut.

0:23:04 – Dr. Liz
Oh, I love that. So accurate to you. I just want to say like, yes, love it. Yeah, my daughter is on the spectrum and I I know there’s overlap between GI and she was diagnosed with gastritis so they did scope her and actually find something. But it’s the PTSD around food, around like is that going to make me sick? Like I don’t know if I can eat that, Like yeah, and it can evolve into an eating disorder if it’s not really addressed Yep.

0:23:37 – Dr. Navidi
ARFID. If you’re familiar with ARFID, it’s avoidant, restrictive food intake disorder. For people listening.

0:23:44 – Dr. Liz
Yes, and these are not people who are trying to lose weight by restricting their diet. They are scared. They are scared to eat something because it may land them in the bathroom or make them sick, nauseous, vomiting, that type of thing. So they start to restrict what they can eat and develop this very personal list of safe, quote unquote foods. But then what happens is it evolves into like nutritional deficiencies if it’s not really handled and it’s a hard one, you know. I ordered the book, the CBTI for ARFID.

Yeah, and basically it says like one, it’s pretty much the only one on the market that’s even written. Two, there’s not a whole lot of research on it. And three, they’re like well, we’re shooting in the dark here, you know, like really.

0:24:34 – Dr. Navidi
And frequently there’s. From what we’ve seen, there’s two major paths to ARFID. Right, there’s. One is the sensory path. Yes, and you see this with a lot of patients on the spectrum. They’re very sensitive to textures and tastes and you know, and they go, they can develop ARFID through that route. Then the other route is the fear-based route. Yeah, right, they’re afraid that it’s going to cause some reaction in their gut, either pain or nausea or vomiting. Sometimes it’s even combined with emetophobia, where people have an intense fear of vomiting. Oh yeah, so hard they develop similar problems. Yeah, yeah, they can develop similar problems.

0:25:14 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, yeah, and I think with IBS as well. People start to try to develop like what can I eat, what can I not eat?

0:25:22 – Dr. Navidi
That type of thing.

0:25:24 – Dr. Liz
Yes, yeah.

0:25:25 – Dr. Navidi
And the thing is they develop all these like safe or unsafe foods, but most of the time it’s actually not the food, because what will happen is, you know, and you know this as a psychologist they’re just having a bad day and they eat some pizza. Yeah, right, and so they’re. Then they’re thinking huh did, did my stomach pain? Was that caused by the pizza? So then next time they have pizza, they go into it with a little bit of fear. Yes, and guess what? That fear feeds down the gut-brain axis and causes more symptoms. Yes, and so when they eat that pizza, they’re getting more symptoms. And now they’re sure that pizza is bad for them. So then every time they eat pizza in the future, they do it with a sense of doom.

0:26:13 – Dr. Liz
Yes.

0:26:14 – Dr. Navidi
They know they’re going to have a problem and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

0:26:18 – Dr. Liz
Yes, right, or they stop eating pizza completely.

0:26:23 – Dr. Navidi
Oh well, yeah, I’m not eating the pizza.

0:26:25 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, it’s just not happening. Yes, yeah, and part of the hypnosis protocol for them is to help them relax around food and have them eat a more varied diet and one that’s like satisfying to them as well, but it does calm down all the symptoms. So how long do you typically work with someone before? Yeah, yeah.

0:26:52 – Dr. Navidi
So I would say that for me personally it tends to be rather fast when we’re treating the, the, the GI issue. So if it’s IBS or something like that like I’ve got a patient right now and they’re responding well and I’m guessing it’s going to probably be around five or six sessions and they can be done with their IBS. The reason I like this work so much, you know cause sometimes psychologists look at me a little funny when I say that I’m specializing in this. But what I really like about it is it’s not too hard to treat the GI issue, but then you’ve got so much therapeutic trust and momentum that you can also treat what’s often an underlying disorder, which might be anxiety, it might be depression, it might be trauma, but there’s such a good relationship there that it’s easy to get that treated. And often they might not have been willing to get that treated before. True, they got that help for the GI problem.

0:27:58 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, very true, very true. I love that, it’s a very nice way to put it. And are you seeing them on a weekly basis, every other week, or is it really individual?

0:28:11 – Dr. Navidi
I typically will try to see them weekly when they start, but if you know, sometimes people for finances or schedule they need every other week and I think that’s fine. I don’t like to go less than that, yeah me neither.

0:28:25 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, I won’t actually do it if someone wants less than that. Yeah.

0:28:30 – Dr. Navidi
It’s hard to get momentum when it’s that far apart. You know three weeks, four weeks, things like that.

0:28:36 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, yeah, I mean, when someone’s been in therapy with me and they feel like they’re well on their way and they want some maintenance, then occasionally I’ll do that, but I will not start that way. It’s, yeah, there’s not enough momentum. It’s like taking a quarter of an antibiotic and expecting it to work.

0:28:56 – Dr. Navidi
That’s a great metaphor. I like it.

0:28:58 – Dr. Liz
Yeah.

0:28:58 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, but related to that, when we look at the data from our clinic because we’ve got 10 therapists now trained up I’d say the average for something like IBS is around 10 sessions, Okay, Like 10 to 14 sessions, because I think what happens is often there’s something else pops up, right Like you’re treating the IBS and they’re like hey, these panic attacks are really bumming me out and so you might do a session or two help with that and then go back to the GI Got it.

0:29:33 – Dr. Liz
Are you recording the sessions for them Like do you send them home with a recording or yeah.

0:29:38 – Dr. Navidi
So I would say the the majority of our therapists. They will record um and they’ll send them with a recording. I don’t always record um because some of my hypnosis sessions are not well adapted for that Meaning. I like to sometimes do a very interactive hypnosis where I’m talking to them throughout or there’s ideomotor signals or something like that. That doesn’t really lend itself to being recorded and repeated.

0:30:09 – Dr. Liz
Correct, yeah, agreed.

0:30:11 – Dr. Navidi
But often, like I’ll find out, we’ll find out something that works for someone and it’ll be very interactive, and then the next session I’ll do another version of it without any interaction, just doing the thing we know worked. And then we record that and we give it to them.

0:30:28 – Dr. Liz
Okay, got it. So when you’re doing the more interactive session, what are you exploring?

0:30:38 – Dr. Navidi
interactive session. Are you? What are you exploring? Yeah, so sometimes it’s just something as simple as you know. Let me know when you notice that cool feeling you know in your stomach, or you know, let me nod your head when you know this happens or that happens. Sometimes it’s more. I would consider more advanced techniques, kind of like exploratory. So we might be, you know, like investigating how the problem started. Looking at internal emotional conflicts, are you familiar with Dabney Ewan’s book Idiomotor Signals? Yeah For rapid hypnoanalysis.

0:31:19 – Dr. Liz
I love that book.

0:31:21 – Dr. Navidi
Yes, Me too.

0:31:25 – Dr. Liz
And I actually saw him before he passed away. I attended a seminar of his yeah.

0:31:29 – Dr. Navidi
Oh, I would have loved to meet him.

0:31:30 – Dr. Liz
Talk about fun. I mean, kept you on the edge of your seat and this is like a two-day seminar of you know. We start at nine, we have a lunch break and we end at like five or something. And I mean, yeah, notebooks full of notes from him. He’s incredible, he was incredible. He sadly passed away a couple of years ago, but, yeah, his book is fantastic as well.

0:31:53 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, it’s so well done and I’ve read a lot of hypnosis books and it’s such an accessible book. He basically gives you a flow chart for how to do this. Really, some can be very complicated, nuanced work and he gives you this great flow chart for how to do it. And I love his acronym I still use the compass C-O-M-P-I-S-S to, like you know, as exploring it. So for people listening that it’s, it’s a, it’s a. It was originally developed, I think earlier, by another clinician named Cheek. I can’t remember his full name, but they called it the seven keys, the seven keys for psychosomatic disorders. So it’s like internal conflict, organ language, motivation, past experience, identity, I think, self-suggestion or suggestion and then self-punishment. I think those are the seven and exploring that. It just blows my mind still the stuff you find when you go in there and look for that stuff.

0:33:08 – Dr. Liz
Yes, I usually use guides on my Kindle and so I have his seven questions and sometimes, when I get stuck with a client, I will go to his seven questions to ask. That are asking like was this suggested by someone in authority? Is this related to something in your past. Like you know, it is very well laid out, but you’re right, it is more of an advanced technique of um in someone who’s willing to do that. Work with you too. Not everyone’s really willing to do that.

0:33:42 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, and I usually my philosophies. I like to start at the more surface level, like if we can solve this problem directly with just direct suggestion. Great, you know, you’re in’re, in, you’re out, you’re done you know, it’s for the people that don’t tend to respond to those direct suggestions in the way that they would like that I often will then switch over to the more exploratory methods yeah, same here.

0:34:11 – Dr. Liz
I’m always like look, if we can get this, if you don’t need the deeper methods, we don’t do them. Yeah you know let’s, yeah, let’s start here, and then only if we can get this, if you don’t need the deeper methods, we don’t do them. You know let’s, yeah, let’s start here, and then only if we need them do we go there. Yeah, so when should someone consider hypnosis if they have a GI disorder?

0:34:26 – Dr. Navidi
So if they’ve got a GI disorder, you know they’re noticing pain or nausea or something, of course, go to your primary care. You know, do the tests and, more likely than not, the test will show that there is not a significant structural component. And if that’s the case, then I would suggest, you know, reaching out to us, you know, or reaching out to someone in your area that’s trained in hypnosis and trained in working with GI, cause not every, not every, person who’s trained in hypnosis knows how to work with IBS or functional dyspepsia.

0:35:01 – Dr. Liz
No, it’s a small percentage actually. Who knows how to do that? Who has the both?

0:35:06 – Dr. Navidi
Yes, exactly, exactly, and that’s the thing. That’s why we, you know, created, you know, gi psychology. It’s just it’s so rare Like literally GI psychology, it’s just it’s so rare Like literally, I think, the latest, numbers were there are 500 trained gut brain therapists in the world, that’s probably more than that. Yeah, you know, maybe you could double that and be generous. Say there’s a thousand in the world but still that’s not a lot. That’s not a lot. That’s ridiculously low compared to how many people have these problems.

0:35:40 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, absolutely it is. So do you ever suggest someone try apps first, like there’s the Nerva app?

0:35:49 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah.

0:35:49 – Dr. Liz
You do.

0:35:50 – Dr. Navidi
Well, it depends. I think Nerva is good. What they’ve done is solid. Simone Peters is the one who created their IBS section. She’s in Australia and she knows her stuff and they’ve done studies to show that it helps apt. They have a really poor follow-through rate. People tend to do a few sessions and then basically give up, and there’s all kinds of different limitations. But I think if somebody just wants to give things a try and they want a low cost entry into it, I think something like Nerva is a great way to start.

0:36:36 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, I think the same thing. But the biggest limitation is that there’s no way an app could customize to you what you really need, and so when you see a trained hypnotherapist specializes in this area, we know how to do that. We know how to adapt to you area.

0:36:58 – Dr. Navidi
We know how to do that. We know how to adapt to you Absolutely and and it’s like it’s going to be a while till till. An app, can you know pace it to. You know, like, take a little longer if you can tell they need to go, you know they need that extra time to kind of sink in or speed it up If you know they’re already where they need to be. You know, like, even just the pacing and then using language that that really resonates with them and using metaphors that resonate with them.

0:37:23 – Dr. Liz
Yes, so true, yeah, yeah. Well, you have given us some great information about hypnosis and GI disorders and some eating disorders too, arfid, so I really appreciate you being here today. Can you please tell people again how to find your practice and how to get connected and get some help that they want?

0:37:48 – Dr. Navidi
Sure thing. So it’s just gipsychologycom, really simple. It’s gipsychologycom, really simple. We’ve got a free 15-minute consult with a clinically trained person who will answer people’s questions and help them figure out if this is the right thing for them. We’re available in all 50 states. Oh, I didn’t mention this is pretty cool. We partner with all these organizations. So so we’re partnered with Crohn’s and colitis foundation and the American college of gastroenterology you know Georgetown in in my area. Medstar scripts on the web, so it’s like probably about 20 different organizations. The Mayo clinic we’re partnered with and we’re their kind of GI psychology support Fantastic.

0:38:43 – Dr. Liz
What about outside of the US? Do you take?

0:38:48 – Dr. Navidi
international clients we haven’t quite figured out. We’ve had a few patients over the years that were outside the United States, but we haven’t explored it as a general practice. We haven’t gone out and made ourselves available, but as far as I can tell, it seems to be a very similar problem outside of the United States too. There just aren’t a lot of trained people out there who understand how to do this work.

0:39:16 – Dr. Liz
Okay, got it All right. Just asking because I know people out there who understand how to do this work. Okay, got it All right. Just asking beause I know people all over the world listen to the podcast, so I want them to be able to have the resource, and I’ve worked with clients all over the world as well. I I will say that, like Asia and Australia is really difficult for me because of the time difference. Yes, you get into like 12, 13 hour time differences. But Europe, South America yeah, that’s all pretty easy yeah.

0:39:43 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah.

0:39:44 – Dr. Liz
But thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom.

0:39:48 – Dr. Navidi
Oh, my pleasure it was. It was a real pleasure talking with you and it sounds like we have a lot of very similar interests in terms of hypnosis and probably know a lot of the same people. I look forward to maybe meeting you in person at one of the ASH conferences once they start getting back to in person.

0:40:07 – Dr. Liz
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully we’ll meet up sometime.

0:40:10 – Dr. Navidi
Yeah, that would be great. Well, it was a pleasure talking with you, thank you.

0:40:50 – Dr. Liz
I hope you truly enjoyed today’s episode. Remember that you can get free hypnosis downloads over at my website, drlizhypnosiscom D-R-L-I-Z-hypnosiscom. I work all over the world doing hypnosis, so if you’re interested in working with me, please schedule a free consultation over at my website and we’ll see what your goals are and if I can be of service to you in helping you reach them. Finally, if you liked today’s episode, please subscribe to the podcast or tell a friend. That way, more and more people learn about the power of hypnosis. All right, everyone, have a wonderful week, peace. This podcast is not mental health treatment, nor should it replace mental health treatment. If you need therapy or hypnotherapy, please seek treatment from a trained professional.

Transcribed by https://podium.page